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Author Topic: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"  (Read 16248 times)

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Offline sensesky

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Hi Al T,

today I wanted to submit this fine release on discogs but I found out that I don't know anything about this release on wax. As you can see on the pix






  :yeah: differs from your pic in your store. How does it come? Is the pic you made of a Promo version? On my  record there is FLP-2001 scratched in. Is this one repressed  :think:

Could you please help me to get this info  into my head  :bonk:

 :wave:

Offline The Orakle

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2006, 11:19:15 AM »
Ahh the infamous funk laplanet!!!!!

well...first of all, that ep should have never been released.

The credits are completely bogus.

They claim the producers are Benjamin and Valerio.
Neither one of these individuals could produce a track if their mother's titties were on fire.
( this was the first incident Deffe tried to take credit for my work)

If you notice, Cybernetic Spy is named as a remix.....
So where's the original mix? :think:
If you listen to the track...
Phoenix is talking about how he comes to my crib to do a track.
Obviously not a remixed vocal :idunno:

Funk laplanet are crooks!
Delusional assholes.

These trax were written and produced by Jay Rodriguez and Myself
(and of course, Zoundwave aka PO)
If you notice the publishing info, FLP's publishing is the only one listed.
Not Jay's, Phoenix's or mine...I'm ASCAP and I think Jay is also.
FLP wrote NOTHING. They earn no publishing. :redcard:

Anyway...
The label in my store is an edit I did to reflect what was really going on.
Deffe nearly got a serious ass whoopin the day he brought that thing to my studio.
I let him slide that time,,,,and the FUCKER DID IT AGAIN!
Next time I see him...I'M JUST GONNA CLOCK HIS ASS!  :bonk:
but......
The label you have is a repress of some sort.
There was no website url on the originals.
Also...THERE IS NO ARTIST LISTED!!!!!l  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
What dickheads!

I'm not sure what to do about discogs...
actual credits should read:
artist: Zoundwave (not Zoundwavez)
writers: Zoundwave, Jay Rodriguez, Al "T" McLaran, Mika
(I don't know who brando is, I think he was just an engineer I doubt he wrote anything.
I THINK he's the same dude Deffe brought to my studio. He tweaked a kick and Deffe tried to give him remix credits on another track I did :nono: )
Producers: Jay Rodriguez, Al "T"McLaran
Exec Producers: Valerio Compagnone, Benjamin Deffe
(I would only get credited for Cybernetic Spy, Jay did the other tracks)

lmao
I probably just added to the confusion...
But at least you know the truth.

If you decide to use the information I've given you...feel free to use me as your source.
LET THEM TRY TO DESPUTE THE UNDESPUTED TRUTH! :waiting:
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:




****This is the problem with having a studio in your home.
People show up at your door, with booze and food and say...lets jam for a little while.
The next thing you know...you have a record out that you never agreed to
and on top of it all...people are trying to rip you off!

this is why I let noone in my house anymore...I'll talk to you in the fuckin driveway!...lmao****
« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 11:28:38 AM by The Orakle »
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Offline sensesky

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2006, 03:12:42 PM »

Hi Al T,

this story sounds a little bit like something that i've heard about the Nonce and their EP "Sight of things". Someone told me that Nouka Bass and Yousef Afloat didn't want this EP to be released but their label did!  :idunno:

I bought this record from someone who lives in Belgium. I was really happy as i received it.
Maybe it was an European release . It's possible for Deffe being a Jetsetter  :idunno:

What about the Naptron that was released on FLP. It was also produced by Benjamin Deffe. And not to forget the Master H feat. Natalie Wallace. I don't understand how it comes that Deffe being an asshole, Natalie Wallace and Naptron are working together with him  :?

Ok but this all really sound weird ! I didn't really notice before that all the publisher's except FLP'S weren't mentioned !
BTW did you made some other music together with Jay Rodriguez? This records is great!

When we are at it i have seen another one i never heard of and don't know anything about ...





Do you know how to change the record informations on discogs?
I didn't find a possibility to edit  :think:


Offline The Orakle

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2006, 06:48:47 PM »
You must be in the "Can of worms" opening business... :ha:

Let's see if I can keep this simple for an outsider to fathom.

When you deal with one Alien...you tend to deal with ALL Aliens.
Most of the Alien Nation comes from Marcy (projects)

So if Phoenix is working with someone, its not long before SuperNatural,
Cozmic Ray, Naptron, Dark Seed or any of the countless others, are going to work that person,
on some level or another. Especially if they appear to have money to spread around.

I'm not sure what Deffe was doing with Naptron.
But if I recall correctly, Nap wasn't very happy with Deffe the last time I spoke to him.

What Benjamin does is....
He goes into the studio with people.
They do all the work.
He pays the studio tab.
Probably gives the artist and/or musicians a few dollars.
Though this is not a bad thing, its not entirely a good thing.
The artist is pacified because they figure they've been compensated for doing a DEMO.
Most figure that Deffe isn't going to make major moves with the demo, so they don't pay much attention to it.
Before you know it...Deffe has this thing pressed up and selling it.
No contracts, no splits, no publishing.
If he makes some money, he might hit them off with a little money, but
I've never known him to give an accurate accounting to anyone I know.

NOW...MASTER H AND NATALIE WALLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You must be talking about "U Gave Me Love" :cuss:

Here's how that came about...

Deffe showed up at my house with some DJ from France.
He says to me, "Al "T" , I want to do a dance record."
I was fine with that.
I'm figuring his DJ friend is going to produce it.
I'll make some money from the studio time.

They proceed to ask me to sample every record under the sun.
None of which work together.
This is going on for hours.
I probably had 15-20 samples of unusable shit by the end of the session.
I tell Deffe and his friend to go home,
I'll see if I can make something out of the pile of shit they left.

I keep one sample.
The horn sample from Americana.
I program new drums.
I add new loops from my personal archive.
I PLAY new horn lines.
I PLAY new bassline.
I PLAY new organ riff.
I WRITE THE TRACK.

Deffe comes back with his buddy.
They listen, they love it.
They want to put it out.

I tell them the song needs a vocal.
It wouldn't stand on it's own as an instrumental.
We need to get a female singer.
Deffe agrees.
I don't remember who's idea it was but...
Natalie ends up on the track.
Natalie has no problem coming in on the session
because she's worked with me before on the Alien Nation LP.
Natalie is Sonic Sister from Alien Nation.

So Natalie shows up with her lyrics.
I tweak the arrangement.

I send them home again.
Edit the vocals.
Mix the song.

Now Deffe shows up with some other dude.
Apparently this guy is a professional engineer.
Deffe brought him up to mix the track...that I already have mixed.
That didn't bother me.
I've never claimed to be an engineer.

This guy tweaks my kick, and adds a little more compression to the bass.
He tells me, "Your mix is just fine, nice job"

OK the track is done.....

I remind Deffe of the Cybernetic Spy situation.
I told him we can split the profits on this track 50/50
Since I did all the studio work and he can pay for the pressing.
He seemed to be ok with that.

Here's where the fuckery begins.

I get a letter from my lawyer (who also happens to be Deffe's lawyer at the time).
There was some ridiculous terms in this thing and I cussed my lawyer out for even sending it to me.
I came up with some very fair terms..even letting Deffe get a lil more than he should..simply because he was gonna pay the bills.
All seemed well, I'm waiting on the hard copy to sign.
Now, out of nowhere, I get another letter from Deffe via his NEW lawyer.
They want me to sign a RELEASE stating that i was just the ENGINEER
and had no claim to any royalties.
So this started a bunch of crap that I'm not gonna get into.
But I told his lawyer, "As long as you remove EVERYTHING I contributed from the track, I don't care what you do with it. That would leave you with a horn sample..and he doesn't have the rights to that either."

Once again..The cd label, that Deffe himself gave me....
There is NO ARTIST LISTED
Just the song name and writers and I AM mentioned as a writer on that copy.
So how am I JUST THE ENGINEER?

I tried to contact Natalie to tell her not to sign anything with Deffe because he's being shady about royalties.
To this day I haven't heard from her. Maybe she signed something...I don't know, but that's her problem.
At this point, I figure the deal is dead, the records not going to come out.

A few months later, I look on FLP's website, there it is...
U gave Me Love by master H featuring Natalie Wallace.
I was like..WHO THE FUCK IS MASTER H????
Then I realised he was the DJ that showed up with the records.

Then a little more research...I found out Deffe released the record
on Sony in France. DIRTY BUSINESS!!!!!



This is why Deffe is an asshole.
OK..you got a deal with Sony...He never called me to let me know.
He never cut me a check, never gave me credit.
I don't give a shit about the record, I don't even think I have it posted in my store, I give that shit away.
The fact is that his actions were very disrespectful.
So I will never work with him again...unless he offers me a ton of money and the contracts are done before the first note is played. (and its not on HIS label, gotta be a major release)

The only beef I have with "H" is....
HE KNOWS HE DIDN'T WRITE THAT SHIT
He can't even fucking speak English.
I didn't realize who he was until he put HIS name on MY song.
That is just some punk ass shit.
Other than that I wish H all the luck in the world.

It's crazy...you try to give folks the benefit of the doubt because you share the LOVE of music.
But there are always those ASSHOLES that want to take advantage of good natured people.
It makes doing what we do, so much harder.
nevertheless..WE KEEP IT MOVING! :mrgreen:

About Jay..hmm I think I have a few tapes of some ideas we were tooling around with, nothing I plan on circulating though. Jay was fun to work with. As a matter of fact, all the cats from Groove Collective
are very cool and talented people.

I've seen that Marcy All Stars thing (I might have a copy), I don't know much about it. I only pay attention to FLP stuff that I'm involved with.

The only thing you can do to change info at discogs is post a comment.
The mods will eventually change the info

This the longest post I've done in months...you struck a nerve :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
« Last Edit: October 30, 2006, 03:31:53 PM by The Orakle »
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Offline Songboy3

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2006, 10:06:46 AM »
LMFAO @ "this is why I let noone in my house anymore...I'll talk to you in the fuckin driveway!" :urock:


Ahh the infamous funk laplanet!!!!!

well...first of all, that ep should have never been released.

The credits are completely bogus.

They claim the producers are Benjamin and Valerio.
Neither one of these individuals could produce a track if their mother's titties were on fire.
( this was the first incident Deffe tried to take credit for my work)

If you notice, Cybernetic Spy is named as a remix.....
So where's the original mix? :think:
If you listen to the track...
Phoenix is talking about how he comes to my crib to do a track.
Obviously not a remixed vocal :idunno:

Funk laplanet are crooks!
Delusional assholes.

These trax were written and produced by Jay Rodriguez and Myself
(and of course, Zoundwave aka PO)
If you notice the publishing info, FLP's publishing is the only one listed.
Not Jay's, Phoenix's or mine...I'm ASCAP and I think Jay is also.
FLP wrote NOTHING. They earn no publishing. :redcard:

Anyway...
The label in my store is an edit I did to reflect what was really going on.
Deffe nearly got a serious ass whoopin the day he brought that thing to my studio.
I let him slide that time,,,,and the FUCKER DID IT AGAIN!
Next time I see him...I'M JUST GONNA CLOCK HIS ASS!  :bonk:
but......
The label you have is a repress of some sort.
There was no website url on the originals.
Also...THERE IS NO ARTIST LISTED!!!!!l  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
What dickheads!

I'm not sure what to do about discogs...
actual credits should read:
artist: Zoundwave (not Zoundwavez)
writers: Zoundwave, Jay Rodriguez, Al "T" McLaran, Mika
(I don't know who brando is, I think he was just an engineer I doubt he wrote anything.
I THINK he's the same dude Deffe brought to my studio. He tweaked a kick and Deffe tried to give him remix credits on another track I did :nono: )
Producers: Jay Rodriguez, Al "T"McLaran
Exec Producers: Valerio Compagnone, Benjamin Deffe
(I would only get credited for Cybernetic Spy, Jay did the other tracks)

lmao
I probably just added to the confusion...
But at least you know the truth.

If you decide to use the information I've given you...feel free to use me as your source.
LET THEM TRY TO DESPUTE THE UNDESPUTED TRUTH! :waiting:
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:




****This is the problem with having a studio in your home.
People show up at your door, with booze and food and say...lets jam for a little while.
The next thing you know...you have a record out that you never agreed to
and on top of it all...people are trying to rip you off!

this is why I let noone in my house anymore...I'll talk to you in the fuckin driveway!...lmao****

Offline Songboy3

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2006, 10:13:25 AM »
"Struck a nerve?"  :redcard: Nah - I'd say he HAMMERED it pretty well!!! :bonk: Whew!!!

You must be in the "Can of worms" opening business... :ha:

Let's see if I can keep this simple for an outsider to fathom.

When you deal with one Alien...you tend to deal with ALL Aliens.
Most of the Alien Nation comes from Marcy (projects)

So if Phoenix is working with someone, its not long before SuperNatural,
Cozmic Ray, Naptron, Dark Seed or any of the countless others, are going to work that person,
on some level or another. Especially if they appear to have money to spread around.

I'm not sure what Deffe was doing with Naptron.
But if I recall correctly, Nap wasn't very happy with Deffe the last time I spoke to him.

What Benjamin does is....
He goes into the studio with people.
They do all the work.
He pays the studio tab.
Probably gives the artist and/or musicians a few dollars.
Though this is not a bad thing, its not entirely a good thing.
The artist is pacified because they figure they've been compensated for doing a DEMO.
Most figure that Deffe isn't going to make major moves with the demo, so they don't pay much attention to it.
Before you know it...Deffe has this thing pressed up and selling it.
No contracts, no splits, no publishing.
If he makes some money, he might hit them off with a little money, but
I've never known him to give an accurate accounting to anyone I know.

NOW...MASTER H AND NATALIE WALLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You must be talking about "U Gave Me Love" :cuss:

Here's how that came about...

Deffe showed up at my house with some DJ from France.
He says to me, "Al "T" , I want to do a dance record."
I was fine with that.
I'm figuring his DJ friend is going to produce it.
I'll make some money from the studio time.

They proceed to ask me to sample every record under the sun.
None of which work together.
This is going on for hours.
I probably had 15-20 samples of unusable shit by the end of the session.
I tell Deffe and his friend to go home,
I'll see if I can make something out of the pile of shit they left.

I keep one sample.
The horn sample from Americana.
I program new drums.
I add new loops from my personal archive.
I PLAY new horn lines.
I PLAY new bassline.
I PLAY new organ riff.
I WRITE THE TRACK.

Deffe comes back with his buddy.
They listen, they love it.
They want to put it out.

I tell them the song needs a vocal.
It wouldn't stand on it's own as an instrumental.
We need to get a female singer.
Deffe agrees.
I don't remember who's idea it was but...
Natalie ends up on the track.
Natalie has no problem coming in on the session
because she's worked with me before on the Alien Nation LP.
Natalie is Sonic Sister from Alien Nation.

So Natalie shows up with her lyrics.
I tweak the arrangement.

I send them home again.
Edit the vocals.
Mix the song.

Now Deffe shows up with some other dude.
Apparently this guy is a professional engineer.
Deffe brought him up to mix the track...that I already have mixed.
That didn't bother me.
I've never claimed to be an engineer.

This guy tweaks my kik, and adds a lil more compression to the bass.
He tells me, "Your mix is just fine, nice job"

OK the track is done.....

I remind Deffe of the Cybernetic Spy situation.
I told him we can split the profits on this track 50/50
Since I did all the studio work and he can pay for the pressing.
He seemed to be ok with that.

Here's where the fuckery begins.

I get a letter from my lawyer (who also happens to be Deffe's lawyer at the time).
There was some rediculous terms in this thing and I cussed my lawyer out for even sending it to me.
I came up with some very fair terms..even letting Deffe get a lil more than he should..simply because he was gonna pay the bills.
All seemed well, I'm waiting on the hard copy to sign.
Now, out of nowhere, I get another letter from Deffe via his NEW lawyer.
They want me to sign a RELEASE stating that i was just the ENGINEER
and had no claim to any royalties.
So this started a bunch of crap that I'm not gonna get into.
But I told his lawyer, "As long as you remove EVERYTHING I contributed from the track, I don't care what you do with it. That would leave you with a horn sample..and he doesn't have the rights to that either."

Once again..The cd label, that Deffe himself gave me....
There is NO ARTIST LISTED
Just the song name and writers and I AM mentioned as a writer on that copy.
So how am I JUST THE ENGINEER?

I tried to contact Natalie to tell her not to sign anything with Deffe because he's being shadey about royalties.
To this day I haven't heard from her. Maybe she signed something...I don't know, but that's her problem.
At this point, I figure the deal is dead, the rocords not going to come out.

A few months later, I look on FLP's website, there it is...
U gave Me Love by master H featuring Natalie Wallace.
I was like..WHO THE FUCK IS MASTER H????
Then I realised he was the DJ that showed up with the records.

Then a little more research...I found out Deffe released the record
on Sony in France. DIRTY BUSINESS!!!!!



This is why Deffe is an asshole.
OK..you got a deal with Sony...He never called me to let me know.
He never cut me a check, never gave me credit.
I don't give a shit about the record, I don't even think I have it posted in my store, I give that shit away.
The fact is that his actions were very disrespectful.
So I will never work with him again...unless he offers me a ton of money and the contracts are done before the first note is played. (and its not on HIS label, gotta be a major release)

The only beef I have with "H" is....
HE KNOWS HE DIDN'T WRITE THAT SHIT
He can't even fuckin speak english.
I didn't realize who he was until he put HIS name on MY song.
That is just some punk ass shit.
Other than that I wish H all the luck in the world.

It's crazy...you try to give folks the benefit of the doubt because you share of LOVE of music.
But there are always those ASSHOLES that want to take advantage of good natured people.
It makes doing what we do, so much harder.
nevertheless..WE KEEP IT MOVING! :mrgreen:

About Jay..hmm I think I have a few tapes of some ideas we were tooling around with, nothing I plan on circulating though. Jay was fun to work with. As a matter of fact, all the cats from Groove Collective
are very cool and talented people.

I've seen that Marcy All Stars thing (I might have a copy), I don't know much about it. I only pay attention to FLP stuff that I'm involved with.

The only thing you can do to change info at discogs is post a comment.
The mods will eventually change the info

This the longest post I've done in months...you struck a nerve :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Offline sensesky

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2006, 10:46:28 AM »

       I would say that something like that not only happens in the music biz. It's the misinterpretation of             
       Robin Hood . But this Benjamin Deffe must be something like a magnet. On their page I found         
       another release with Polo and Phoenix Orion called Hot Time. And i think that his name also
       appeared on the compilation Squadron on Celestial. I think it was also a track by Alien Nation.

Offline The Orakle

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2006, 03:13:36 PM »
Phoenix is actually the magnet.
They follow Phoenix to where he says there's money.
If its not deffe..its celestial sounds...or pallas...or whoever has bought into the alien nation at the moment.
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Offline Chief

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2006, 04:12:36 PM »

this is why I let noone in my house anymore...I'll talk to you in the fuckin driveway!...lmao****

but but...what if I show up????

Offline The Orakle

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2006, 04:17:11 PM »

this is why I let noone in my house anymore...I'll talk to you in the fuckin driveway!...lmao****

but but...what if I show up????

Muthafucka, you don't even make it to the driveway!
you get kicked straight to the curb!!!!!!!!
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


That is unless its pow wow night!
then you're welcome to sit around the campfire
and smokem big peace pipe :wiggle:
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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2006, 04:37:54 PM »
watch it now T...remember..you are a year away from medicaide...whos gonna pay for your blood pressure medicine??? relax.......woooosaaaaahhhhh

Offline The Orakle

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2006, 10:42:27 PM »
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Offline Bonkman

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2006, 12:38:36 AM »
So...

If I show up on Coz's doorstep with a fat bottle of GlenFiddich 15 year, I most likely get in.

What the hell do I bring to your driveway? Deffe's head on a stake?

 :yeahbaby:
You'll just have to ask for my signature.

Offline The Orakle

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2006, 02:38:53 AM »
So...

If I show up on Coz's doorstep with a fat bottle of GlenFiddich 15 year, I most likely get in.

What the hell do I bring to your driveway? Deffe's head on a stake?

 :yeahbaby:

and a bottle of glen! :lol:
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Offline Chief

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Re: Question about the Release from Phoenix Orion called "Cybernetic Spy"
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2006, 10:28:29 AM »
ill bring Gwen